Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 142

Thread: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    262

    Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Well I decided to start my own thread rather than to keep posting in all the F40 build threads. To the owners of those threads sorry for the clutter I added.

    First a little about me, I have been a car guy since I was 14 I have owned and restored everything from muscle cars, to Jags, and most recently built a darn near 100% custom Dodge Stealth RT/TT my first real foray into the world of fuel injection, computers and turbos. I mounted a widebody kit on my Stealth and had a custom hood and bumper designed for the car, custom two toned leather interior, the car had upgraded turbos, fuel system, CF drive shaft and dynoed 423 at the wheels pushing 20 lbs of boost. I showed and raced it for two years after a two year build and just recently sold it. I live for the build phase of projects, I am by no means an expert but I do know my way around a garage.

    I am in the process of trying to procure my F40 Replica but seeing as I don't own one yet I am not posting this in the build thread area.

    I have been talking with Dave Held about his rear subframe set up to accomplish a 3" stretch on the base Fiero this accomplishes several things:
    -It allows for a correct F40 wheel base of 96.5"
    -It improves the suspension
    -Has some great options for brake upgrades
    -It will allow for a longitudinal V8 to be fitted in the vehicle which I think is critical for a more accurate Replica build.
    -It gets rid of all the fiero rear end sheet metal and trunk stuff that takes away from the realism factor when an F40 Replica has its rear end raised upwards.

    The problem was that with only a 3 inch stretch there is no room for a traditional V8 (LT1, Northstar, Aurora, etc.), to fit those engines requires a 10" stretch, while that is great for a Lambo it just won't do for the F40. While I was posting my frustration last night Mr. Ferrari brought up an engine I had frankly never heard of, the 4.0l W8 which came in the VW Passat. Mr. Ferrari, you sir are a genius!

    Upon further research this engine is a thing of beauty 270HP stock and only 16.5 inches long with a weight of 418 pounds, a full 10 inches shorter than an LT1 and 105 pounds lighter. Well like I said I had no knowledge about this engine or how feasible it would be to use for my future project. My thoughts were mounting this engine to an Audi 5000 transaxle would make for a very tidy package.

    As luck would have it I have some good friends that own 3Zero3 Motorsports. They specialize in VW, Audi, and Porsche and are one of the premier shops of this type in the state. I met these guys through my job and they followed my Dodge Stealth build. I stopped by today and ran my thoughts past them. They were very excited about my proposed project and stated that it seemed very feasible.

    I spoke with one of their mechanics who specializes in the W8 and is part of their "Motorsports Team", he does a lot of their custom turbo upgrades and is a dedicated racer. He advised me that the W8 does very well when turbocharged he suggested that the W8's 6-speed transaxle may work in this application and would be a better choice over the Audi 5000 box. He did tell me that the 5000 box should mount straight up to the W8 because Audi/VW uses a standardized bell housing but it would probably require a custom made fly wheel.

    I was told this motor is often transplanted into other VW/Audi platforms and there is a Standalone EMS that was designed for the W8 and will interface with all of the engines stock sensors, for the life of me I can't remember the name of the EMS now. The shop is also willing to develop a twin turbo charger set up and will do their best to replicate the "plumbing" for the intercoolers and exhaust system to make it match as closely as possible to the real F40's.

    The guys at the shop are well connected in the Audi/VW world and told me that they would help source all of the parts for this conversion at cost and would be willing to assist in technical advise for free or to actually take on the mechanical part of the build all together. I think if I go this route I will get everything mounted and then go to them for the turbo upgrade and plumbing plus the wiring/setup of the EMS and tuning. These guys are total car guys and were almost as excited about the project as I am.

    Next week I am going to head down when I have more time and sit down with the owner and try to figure out how pricing for parts as well as to get more information on the stock W8 transaxle to see if it will work for what I am trying to accomplish.

    So I think I have found the perfect option for the most accurate replica of an F40. At this point I am pretty darn excited now I just need to actually get my car! I am negotiating the purchase of one right now and will hopefully be picking up a somewhat battered but structurally sound car in the next few weeks, wish me luck on that!

    For those that managed to read this whole post please feel free to make suggestions or find flaws or problems in my plan.

    Matt

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    914

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    matthewc,

    Sounds very interesting and will be following your build. For now I am sticking with the 4.9 cadi I am putting into mine but am playing around with ideas to replace it in 2010 when I return from Iraq. I dont need to have areplica that does 200 mph but want plenty of performance on those rare occasions. I was going with the LT1 with the Archie kit but if you can get this to work for a resonable price it sounds like a match made in heaven.

    Make sure you check out HTXtremes thread on Pennocks he has more engine picts etc over there. Nothing like what your doing but it would be worth your while to check it out.

    So....hurry up and get you a car and hop in. Will be watching.

    michael
    Building a F40 replica, 4.9 caddy, 5 speed.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    262

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Michael,
    I will tell you I wouldn't have even considered taking on a project like this if it was not for the innovative work you and HTXtremes have done to make the F40 body a true Replica Body, and the work and attention to detail that ferrobi and Amida have done to try and make the perfect interior. The attention to detail I have seen each of you, and many others on the board go towards was pretty darn inspiring. This will be my first true Replica Car build and I am very excited to start being a productive member of the boards and actually building my car.

    As to how reasonably priced I am going to be able to do this drive train that is yet to be seen, I am hoping it is not too outrageous for the base motor and transaxle, I was really surprised with how reasonable Dave Helds subframes are on his web site.

    I know that the custom Twin Turbo App is going to be expensive just from my past work with turbos and custom plumbing, etc...But if everything works out right I hope this is something that others could do in stages, add the rear subframe, motor and tranny and then upgrade to the turbos at a later date if the end user decided to go that route.

    One thing I promise is that once I get started I will take pictures of the build every step of the way and try to document it in as much detail as possible. I did that with my Stealth build and had literally thousands of pictures. I created a "build book" that had about 200 pics and displayed it whenever I showed the car, the judges and onlookers loved that because it showed the car going from a wrecked hooptie to a show winning track car.

    Matt

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    262

    Another coold thing about Dave Helds Rear subframe

    So the F40's rear track is 63.27" and the front track is 62.8" and the Fiero's stock rear track is 60.1" and the front track is 59.7"

    Dave Held's rear subframe increases the rear track to 66" or 68" but on his site he does show pictures of one that he made with a 65" track. So the question is could he make one with a 63.27 track to exactly match the rear track of the F40? The other equation that I need to find an answer to is how does Ferrari measure wheel track? Dave states on his website: "I've spec'd the engine cradle track width from the outtermost portion of the hub (including the brake rotor ) from one side to the other.... This measurement is taken from the center "hat" portion of the rotor, not the friction surface of the rotor." So does Ferrari measure the same way? If I know how Ferrari measures their track then I can figure out exactly how wide of a track subframe I would need Dave to make.

    Onto the front track one needs to add 3"'s I am not into large wheelspacers I think that is too big of a compromise and afterall I am trying to build a world class super car so what is the answer? Well I really like the looks of HT Motorsports Slalom Front Suspension. This is a complete self contained front suspension replacement set up that can be ordered with the additional 3"'s of track that are needed built right in.

    Ok, so now we have addressed how to accomplish the stretch, proper engine placement, and found a way to improve the stock Fiero suspension to a true race car type suspension while making the front and rear track correct. Wow next up on the table is solving world hunger! LOL

    Well those are my thought for now, I am going to use this thread as a pre-build diary and a way to try and document all of the thoughts and prebuild research I am doing so that it is all in one place and it is available for anyone else who might be interested.

    Please anyone that reads these posts feel free to jump in with ideas or thoughts, poke holes in my plan, tell me why you think something won't work etc... I have very thick skin and am here because I want to build the best car that I possibly can I realize I don't know everything and am open to as many eyes and brains as possible going over my thought processes.

    Matthew

  5. #5
    Moderator FunnyWheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    8,151

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Dave Held Rear Section with a Chrysler V6. He can make the track to match what ever you need. The front for an F-40 should be +2 inches per side, 4 inches overall if you are using F-40 rims. Fronts are 7.5 inches wide and rears are 10 inches wide.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    262

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyWheels
    Dave Held Rear Section with a Chrysler V6. He can make the track to match what ever you need. The front for an F-40 should be +2 inches per side, 4 inches overall if you are using F-40 rims. Fronts are 7.5 inches wide and rears are 10 inches wide.
    Thank you for the picture! I would love to see more, that is exactly what I am looking for. I can't wait to see what it will look like with a W8 installed!

    Matt

  7. #7

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewc

    Thank you for the picture! I would love to see more, that is exactly what I am looking for. I can't wait to see what it will look like with a W8 installed!

    Matt
    I am glad you took to the W8 idea.. It is a very well designed and powerfull compact engine that jumped to mind when I saw what you were looking to achieve.. I hope to see the awesome held subframe and W8 in your car someday ;D

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    262

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ferrari
    Quote Originally Posted by matthewc

    Thank you for the picture! I would love to see more, that is exactly what I am looking for. I can't wait to see what it will look like with a W8 installed!

    Matt
    I am glad you took to the W8 idea.. It is a very well designed and powerfull compact engine that jumped to mind when I saw what you were looking to achieve.. I hope to see the awesome held subframe and W8 in your car someday ;D
    Hopefully that will be sooner rather than later! I am trying to find a board member in Georgia who would be willing to go look at a F40 Replica for me. I really need someone to take some decent pics of it and look it over to make sure it doen't have any fatal flaws. If it checks out I am ready to buy today!

    Matt

  9. #9
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Victoria, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,410

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Matt;

    I might have an additional option for you in the area of a good frame. I bought a frame from a fellow over on Pennock's that was custom built around the Fiero cockpit. You are prepared to spend a fair amount of money to improve the base Fiero suspension and frame but with this frame, you already have a purpose built frame that fits the Fiero cockpit....

    I have found myself not having enough time to do anything with it and it has sat in my buddy's garage for the past 2+ years waiting for me to finish my 355 build, which is also taking forever.

    The thread with the pics etc. is attached below as well as the Pennock's build thread so you can see how he did such a beautiful job in the design and build of the frame. I also attached the for sale thread here if you are interested in pursuing that option. The frame is currently 98.5" wheelbase but I can talk you through how I was going to shorten it by 2" to get the 96.5" wheelbase for the 288 GTO project I was to do on the frame. It is currently set to fit an SBC with a G50 Transmission but I was planning on a 3.4 DOHC V6 with cutom built intakes to match up the Ferrari look.

    Either way, good luck with the build and I will enjoy the build thread.

    Cheers
    Don

    http://www.madmechanics.com/general-...8-gto-project/

    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/048610.html

    http://www.madmechanics.com/the-mall...t-in-my-frame/
    308 Ferrari replica
    Prova Countach 5000QV

  10. #10

    Re: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica

    Another not-too-difficult option would be an NSX engine and transaxle.
    This engine is transversely mounted to it's transaxle (5 and 6 speed options), and is both reliable and strong.

    It would easily fit within the space you've described.

    They come up for sale periodically on Ebay.

    You're looking at about 350 to 400 hp without significant modification.


Similar Threads

  1. Longitudinal V6
    By Don in forum Technical Discussion & Question
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 12-25-2009, 06:58 PM
  2. MOVED: Longitudinal V8 into an F40 Replica
    By MadMechanic in forum Technical Discussion & Question
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-27-2009, 04:12 PM
  3. Longitudinal Mid-Mount
    By Any_Key in forum Technical Discussion & Question
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-24-2006, 05:43 PM
  4. Want longitudinal engine/kit. What are my options?
    By fiero308 in forum General Kitcar Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-21-2004, 08:18 PM
  5. Longitudinal transaxle
    By Tha Driver in forum Technical Discussion & Question
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-16-2004, 10:44 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •