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Thread: FunnyWheels Turbo Ideas

  1. #11
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyWheels
    so if I can keep the boost between 7 and 19 lbs do you think the engine would be ok for intown driving?
    Dave, You are going to get as many opinions as there are people on here. From my experince, the 9.4:1 compression you are planning will cause some predetonation on your higher boast. Predetonation will eventually melt your piston tops. At what point that will occur, no one knows. I know when we built turbo engines in the old days, at 20lbs of boast we would only be able to run about 7.7:1 compression. On the lower boost engines 8.5 to 9:1 was the norm. I am sure with all the info on the net. There must be several good turbo forums with experience with the engine you are working with. All of mine were twin turbo V8's before fuel injection.


  2. #12
    Moderator FunnyWheels's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by bartman
    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyWheels
    so if I can keep the boost between 7 and 19 lbs do you think the engine would be ok for intown driving?
    Dave, You are going to get as many opinions as there are people on here. From my experince, the 9.4:1 compression you are planning will cause some predetonation on your higher boast. Predetonation will eventually melt your piston tops. At what point that will occur, no one knows. I know when we built turbo engines in the old days, at 20lbs of boast we would only be able to run about 7.7:1 compression. On the lower boost engines 8.5 to 9:1 was the norm. I am sure with all the info on the net. There must be several good turbo forums with experience with the engine you are working with. All of mine were twin turbo V8's before fuel injection.

    I hear you loud and clear. I realize that it is very important, in any turbocharged engine, that the fuel system is operating properly, especially if more boost is to be run. From what I have found, most engine failures involving turbos are due to detonation, brought on by the fuel system's inability to provide enough fuel to keep the air/fuel mixture at the proper levels. A wideband air/fuel mixture gauge is going to ne included for my turbo engine, as it will give a general indication of mixture. Hopefully that will minimize the problem. I think I might begin in the 7 lbs range then go up from there.
    If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

  3. #13
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    I saw this link that might help you in your turbo installation.

    http://www.miata.net/garage/turbo/turbo.htm

    Hope it will do you good.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member FerrariFan's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Dave,
    I'm installing a turbo on my 3.4 DOHC engine when I get back so I have gone through some of the same research as you are doing now.
    At first glance it the t3/t4 turbo may be on the small side for a 3800 if you want to be in the turbo's max efficiency area. If you can find a compressor map for the particular turbo you plan on using you can know for sure. A lot depends on RPM ranges, CFM rates and the Volumetric Efficiency for your engine. You can figure out the VE by plotting different points on a dyno graph and plugging the numbers into a formula.
    Here's a good link that explains some of it.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/arti...ght-turbo.html
    Luckily for you this upgrade has been done before and there is pretty good documentation on it.
    It will require a custom PROM, bigger injectors, 2 bar map and some incremental tuning on a dyno would be wise. I agree with the earlier poster who pointed you to Ryan Gick (aka Darth Fiero)over at Pennocks.
    Here's his website. http://dtcc.cz28.com/87fiero/

    Here's a couple more informative links.
    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/083177.html
    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087969.html

    This guy started with an L67
    http://web.archive.org/web/200612051...rboproject.htm

    Good luck,
    Lance
    Even the longest journey begins with the first step.

  5. #15
    Moderator FunnyWheels's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan
    Dave,
    I'm installing a turbo on my 3.4 DOHC engine when I get back so I have gone through some of the same research as you are doing now.
    At first glance it the t3/t4 turbo may be on the small side for a 3800 if you want to be in the turbo's max efficiency area. If you can find a compressor map for the particular turbo you plan on using you can know for sure. A lot depends on RPM ranges, CFM rates and the Volumetric Efficiency for your engine. You can figure out the VE by plotting different points on a dyno graph and plugging the numbers into a formula.
    Here's a good link that explains some of it.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/arti...ght-turbo.html
    Luckily for you this upgrade has been done before and there is pretty good documentation on it.
    It will require a custom PROM, bigger injectors, 2 bar map and some incremental tuning on a dyno would be wise. I agree with the earlier poster who pointed you to Ryan Gick (aka Darth Fiero)over at Pennocks.
    Here's his website. http://dtcc.cz28.com/87fiero/

    Here's a couple more informative links.
    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/083177.html
    http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087969.html

    This guy started with an L67
    http://web.archive.org/web/200612051...rboproject.htm

    Good luck,
    Lance
    Lance: You have provided a lot of great information regarding this topic. I think you and I should keep in touch on the how to's of putting a turbo on the twin cam abd the 3800. There are only a few people posting usable data.

    How much boost are you planning to run on your engine. I think I will begin at the stock 7lbs and work up from there. The biggist challenge for me is dropping the engine to build the parts correctly. (along with a new trans).

    Be safe,

    Dave
    If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

  6. #16
    Senior Member FerrariFan's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Sounds like a good idea Dave. Most of the info I have is from Pennocks. Matt Hawkins has a turbo 3.4 DOHC making over 400 rwhp. What's more impressive is his engine has a stock bottom end. The trick is that he tuned it very carefully and incrementally to squeeze every bit of reliable power out of the engine without getting into detonation. That is what kills most guy's engines. I think they are in too big of a hurry to make huge numbers and try to tune using the seat of the pants dyno with no clue what their a/f ratio, or spark advance curve is.
    I'm starting with DarthFieros custom TGP PROM primarily because it will recognize a 5 speed but it will also run a MAP based 6 cyl.
    What year is your engine? Is it using MAP or MAF? I've heard that MAF is easier to tune. If I were to do my engine install over I would probably wire an ODB 1.5 PCM with MAF.
    I'm going to use a local speedshop with a dyno tune it with a wideband O2 meter and a computer logging real-time data. These guys know what they're doing based on all the other high performance vehicles they have tuned; mostly imports, but there is a lot we can learn from the tuner crowd too.
    The first order of business is making sure Funnywheels engine is healthy. I remember you saying you had a high rpm miss. Might want to run that down first.
    Watch out for the cheap turbo's on Ebay. I've seen pictures of chinese made turbos that disintigrated and got ingested into some poor saps engine.
    I'm have a Garrett GT32-76R ball bearing turbo that was the closest thing to ideal that I could find back when I was plotting compressor maps. If you want to save some bucks, some guys are having good luck with junkyard turbos from diesel pickups but it's hard to find compressor maps for them and I wanted to start with a known good part and minimize the guess work.
    I'll contribute more to this thread when the project starts taking shape and I've got some pictures.

    Lance
    Even the longest journey begins with the first step.

  7. #17
    Moderator FunnyWheels's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Lance:

    My engine is a bone stock 3800 N/A out of a 1999 Buick. It had 96 miles on it when they took it apart for quality control (not the engine)

    It is attached to my Getrag 5 speed with larger injectors from a Camero 350.

    That is about it. Oh, No Cats.

    Dave
    If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

  8. #18
    Senior Member FerrariFan's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas


    I found this book at the local Borders book store. It's full of good info that is directly applicable to this project.
    http://www.lulu.com/content/237511
    Even the longest journey begins with the first step.

  9. #19
    Moderator FunnyWheels's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan

    I found this book at the local Borders book store. It's full of good info that is directly applicable to this project.
    http://www.lulu.com/content/237511
    Thanks Lance, I will pick one up at lunch today.

    Dave
    If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

  10. #20
    Senior Member FerrariFan's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Ideas

    Dave,
    Looks like someone has done all the hard work already and made a turbo kit for your engine. It looks like a pretty good deal too.

    http://www.3800performance.com/ct_turbo_kit.htm


    Here's a review of it installed in a Gran Prix.
    http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...rix/index.html

    I wish there was a kit like that for the 3.4 DOHC. Looks like I'll be spending lots more to go the custom route.
    Lance
    Even the longest journey begins with the first step.

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