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Thread: high performance import engines in kits?

  1. #1
    Junior Member BlackiceGT's Avatar
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    high performance import engines in kits?

    supercharged/turbocharged V6s, V8s, etc seem to be pretty common in kits, why aren't import engines used more often?

    I think a Lambo kit with a twin turbo Supra engine would be sweet! capable of 600hp.. actually, if the turbos were replaced with a pair of superchargers, hidden underneath a lambo engine cover of course, and using the right exhaust setup.. the car would have a very distinctive sound... might just be exotic enough.

    thoughts on this?

  2. #2
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    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    Although I may be wrong, I think the problem with putting import engines in is that they won't mount easily to our american transmissions, so the import transmissions would have to be transfered over to the fiero as well, which would requre a lot of fabricating (New Axles and mounts at least I would suspect).

    Throw enough money at any problem though and your bound to find a solution!

  3. #3

    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    I am not sure eithor but as far as the Supra comment.... A single turbo is what the guys go with for high powah!!! Get rid of the twin and replace with a larger single.

  4. #4

    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    Actually I've been wondering about this too. Just taking the whole front end from some Supra and moving it to the rear.

    AFAIK, the j spec integra, eclipse, civic etc engines still don't have enough power (280HP at most). Don't know too much about the other offerings (and there are a lot). So I guess I really don't know anything hehe.

    Anyone else?

  5. #5
    Junior Member BlackiceGT's Avatar
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    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    if a single turbo would work best, then sure.. main reason I suggested 2 superchargers would be to get a cool sounding 2-tone whine at high RPMs.

    I thought that would sound very exotic.

  6. #6
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    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    Another reason to steer clear of import Engines......The American v8's have a much larger range of perf parts, are and much much easier to find those parts for.

    Here in Cali...you can get a lo mile LT1 with harness for about 1500 dollars. A Fiero V8 Conversion, seems to runn 3800 for the kit, and a couple grand to install. 345 smog legal, reliable horsepower? Easy.

    Lets say you have the capability to install the v8 yourself.... pop a Vortech or a paxton on the LT1 and you are nearly to 500 hp...without boring, porting, reprogramming, working the heads, or anything else.

    I met someone in the Sandiego Area...who has a Ligenfelter prepped 383 LT1 with a Paxton on it.....his dyno sheet is screaming 785 hp....SMOG LEGAL. Big deal there, as comp controlled engines sometimes have problems with big mods. Sensors, ect, the life can drastically shorten, and become very expensive, I know a buch of guy with silly little hondas around here....always breaking...sign of poor planning.

    I put a turbo on my little 2.8 and am kicking 291 hp (well there was a lot of other stuff done as well...lol)

    Also...it depends on your driving style, and your engine/tranny setup as to whether to run single or twin turbos. A single large turbo will take longer to spool, thereby increasing lag. Lag means if your competitor has an engine that generates it powerband lower....Ie from around 2k rpm, vice 5k rpm, he will probably blow you away.

    Twin turbos are usually smaller, and spool quicker...thereby generating power sooner.

    An old truck and aircraft principle is becoming more common place...turbo-supercharging. There was a car here at the LA auto show last year, from a European tuner...Quad turbos (ala' Bugatti EB110) but with an added screw compressor on top. The turbos were matched two little, two big, with electronic wastegates to allow the smaller turbos to positively spool the larger ones with no lag. The supercharger in turn is helping accelleration, and spooling of the smaller turbos as well. A VERY Expensive system, (including the pneumatic valvetrain, digital injection, and all the other gucci stuff) but if you have never seen a Diablo smoke all four tires (while doing over 130) you have not really lived.

    You could probably pull this off on a built V8 without too much trouble...(not that I am planning this or anything...heheheh) and the combo would be much more bullet proof than a modded asian engine. I used to own a 300zx twin turbo...trust me on this...youd rather have the V8...more power potential. I got pretty sick of spending myself broke, only to get smoked by Corvettes (which is the reason they no longer build the Supra, or the 300zx. Why would people want to pay $50,000 for a sports car that gets smoked by a $30,000 sports car? Just think what you could do with $20,000 in change!! Yes Corvette's are now in the 40-50K range....back then...They werent.

    Have fun...but remember...no substitute for cubic inches. Do the same mods to a small motor and a bigger one...the big one will win every time. That is just the way it is.

    The question you need to ask...before shooting for straight horsepower is....what is the car being built for? Strictly Racing? Are you going to drive it on the street(cruising?) In traffic? Is it going to be a daily driver?

    As you come down from full all out race....you will see compromises must be made, if nothing else than for drivabilty, and control. Ever see a 5 or six second car try to cruise the strip??? They dont make it 2 blocks, before they are puking coolant out of their electric water pumps.

    Thats my 25 cents lol. (I live in Cali...Inflation!!!)

    Steve





    87 3.1Turbo GT Spyder

  7. #7
    Junior Member High-G's Avatar
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    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    I don't know much about the import engines, but I do know a little about turbo engines. I think Steve hit the nail on the head when he said to look at what you were going to but doing with the car once it was running. I tend to think along slightly different lines. If you are going to be running light to light, then NA or supercharged is the only way to go (reasonably priced). If you plane to run in your upper-mid range, then go turbo charged.

    As for cubinc inches being better, I just don't know... As I said in a previous post, I've got 2 engines sitting in my garage, a Ford 351W stroked out to 427, cammed, blah blah blah, and I'm pulling about 700 HP out of it. Right next to it is a 2.3 liter Turbo 4-cylinder that was in my 85.5 SVO Mustang. Now, mind you that I've built this engine twice, and the second time I only dumped around $25K in it. When I remove the boost regulator, I'm running right at 36 LBS of boost and around 820 HP. If this doesn't seem possible to you, just think back to the good old days of racing, when GTP (Grande Touring Prototype) was around. There were some 1250 HP Turbo 4's there. Yup, 230 MPH 4 cylinders. That makes me drool.

    Again, I digress... I like the twisties, so I can usually keep my RPMs in the upper-mid range to high range (5700 - 8200 RPMs). This is great, because if you tried to run a supercharger in this range for any length of time, my money is on you picking up little peices of your blower along th highway while waiting for the tow truck!

    Major

  8. #8

    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    FORD POWAH!!!!!!!!

  9. #9
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    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    Hey!!! Somebody thinks like me!!!

    Big Engines usually have one drawback....lower rpm spool capability. They have a larger reciprocating mass...therefore more actual friction, stress, ect untill BOOOM...and Black Ice's Towtruck comes to get you! lol.

    Smaller engines can actually rev higer for the same reasons. This makes their powerband longer, but not always higher.

    Ever wonder how Ferrari's pull off their magic?

    Look at the Formula 1 engine......V-10 but small displacement...I believe this years car is running a 4 litre (give or take) 800+hp, 0-60 nearly instantly, and 220 to 240 on the top end....17,000 rpm and runs all day long.

    Now...lets look at a Big, muscle bound V8...say from a top fueler......2500+hp. Gobs of torque, 0-300 faster than you can say holy shi$#$. 12000 rpm (yes you read that right, most of these monsters spin 750-800 cubes that fast) and needs to be completely rebuilt after 2 or three runs (less than 1 mile!!!!)

    The 350's if built right...can play a blancing act. Read built right as EXPENSIVE!!! lol. You tailor your engine to the type or racing (or driving you do), and that is the first step to building the car. Always build the car...around the engine. Next comes chassis, and suspension. Final is shape...The Last Countach's and the first Diablos have the exact same powertrain....Wanna know why the Diablo is about 20 mph faster? Aerodynamics!!!

    Economically speaking, the best high perf motor for a Fiero, is the LT1. Yes, other engines can and will make as much, or more power. But how many of them can go into our cars with out taking an act of God, paliament, congress, and the ACLU? (oh, and the budgets from each?)

    That 4 cyl sounds AWESOME! But a custom adapter plate would have to be made to get it to bolt up. Also, it might not fit, as Fieros are Transverse. So, everything would possibly have to be re-routed. Then there is the electrical nightmare of mating GM to Ford (shudder, I helped a friend put a LT1 into an 89 Jag...omg!!!! I could only imagine the nightmare trying to do it twisted up in the nooks and crannies of a Fiero!!!!

    For the car to handle well...Balance must be maintained. So we are looking for a high horse motor in Aluminum. The cheapest, most easily obtainable (and maintainable) is the LT1.

    At the Knotts berry farm shows, I have seen Northstars, (awesome!!!) and Aurora V8's as well. Sombody even stuffed a Rat (502 big block)motor into one. Even a Ford 302 SVO.

    It comes down to a basic question...What do you want, and how fast do you want to spend? The more you drive the car, the more chance it has of breaking (trust me on this one, lol)and the more you race it, the opportuinty for component failure increases tenfold.

    The 300zx I had, was fairly built, better turbos, reprogged computer, ect....I broke down near Montery :'(, and got to spend 4 days in a hotel, while a new part was shipped up from LA. (it was a weekend). Very dissapointing, and not a good way to show off your toys, trust me. Girlfriends don't like it either!!! Lol. So remember to think reliability if its a street car!!!! And no car looks good on the side of the Freeway, with its hood up, smoking, or bleeding fluids!!!

    Steve




    87 3.1Turbo GT Spyder

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Re: high performance import engines in kits?

    Whoooops! I meant to say...High-G's tow-truck...not Black Ice's. Sorry about that!!! (He mentioned a tow truck in his post.) lol. I just noticed that!! Sorry man!!!

    Steve
    87 3.1Turbo GT Spyder

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