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Thread: Ferrari 288 GTO - BUILD - Project

  1. #1151
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Thanks Dave;

    I will look again as I had gone through the starter alignment when I put the starter in and it ran pretty freely when I was loving oil but will definitely check that again and that does make sense. I didn't see the little green ball in the view glass of the battery last night either so I am wondering if my third battery (before even starting this thing) is going downhill on me from sitting too long. I have been buying new batteries thinking I will be running the engine imminently and another year passes....... I am there now though.

    Chinese torture continues...

    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
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  2. #1152
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    This is what I posted over on Pennock's which gives a bunch more detail on what I have done and tried.

  3. #1153
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Forum acting weird.

    Try Again

    -----------------------------------------

    Hello All;


    Need some help with the engine starting on the swap project. Finally got the wiring finished and everything plumbed on the 3.4 swap and went through the process below to get everything confirmed.


    1. I moved the battery up front and used 1 gauge wire running back to a positive and neg terminal setup over by where the battery used to sit in the engine bay. Not using the battery up front yet until I get it running.
    2. From the engine bay + terminal, I ran 4 gauge wire to positive terminal on starter
    3. Confirmed I have E2 on C500 running to solenoid.
    4. Confirmed I have alternator fused wire going to terminal block under C500, and L and F wires from Alt going to B3 and E3 on C500.
    5. The engine is a crate engine so I filled with oil etc. and then put power to the engine bay power terminals but did not hook up power to the power distribution block under C500. Turned the engine over quite a bit to get oil moved around by jumping the solenoid to the + terminal on the starter. This worked fine and no issues turning the engine over on the battery I have. I also had the plugs out so little resistance.


    6. Thinking I was ready to try to start the car, I hooked everything up to the power feeds.
    7. I hooked up the C500 Power dist block to the + terminal on the starter with the red fused link wire and confirmed power to the power dist block so theoretically, the rest of the power grid in the car.
    8. Turned on the key to run position and heard the fuel pump prime as expected. Confirmed fuel getting up to fuel rail and back through the return line
    9. Went to hit the starter (clutch in) and nothing. No click like you might get with a low battery or many be duff solenoid. Just nothing
    10. Tried one more thing to see if it was more power related or more toward the ign circuit. I turned the key to on/run and went underneath again to jump the starter terminals to see if the engine would turn over.


    It turned over but very slow. Tried a few times to jump and then went to pull the battery cables off to start troubleshooting. I found that both terminals on the battery were very hot when I had everything hooked up and turning the engine over by jumping the starter. Checked power at battery and it read 13 volts as I had just finished charging the battery overnight. The battery worked fine when I had the plugs out and was just turning the engine over to get oil moved around. I will get the battery checked tomorrow as well to see if it is bad after sitting for several years.


    My thoughts so far and any help and ideas would be appreciated.


    - Possibly fusible link to ignition switch either not hooked up correctly or blown?
    - With the full power distribution hooked up, I was not getting a hot battery prior to trying to start so not sure I have a large current draw therefore short anywhere but not 100% sure. Will check that tomorrow with an ammeter in the circuit from the battery.
    - Any specific wires I should focus on to see if they are correctly connected within the wiring harness. I had the harness made many years ago by a fellow here but so long ago that anything I was told has fallen out of my head by now.....


    Thoughts or areas to start from anyone?


    Anything would be appreciated.
    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
    Prova Countach 5000QV

  4. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    9. Went to hit the starter (clutch in) and nothing. No click like you might get with a low battery or many be duff solenoid. Just nothing
    This sounds like a problem with the Clutch Neutral Safety Switch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    10. Tried one more thing to see if it was more power related or more toward the ign circuit. I turned the key to on/run and went underneath again to jump the starter terminals to see if the engine would turn over.
    By doing the above, you bypassed the clutch switch, and the engine turned over (albeit slowly), so that proves there's a problem with that circuit, but it sounds like there's more to it than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Tried a few times to jump and then went to pull the battery cables off to start troubleshooting. I found that both terminals on the battery were very hot when I had everything hooked up and turning the engine over by jumping the starter. Checked power at battery and it read 13 volts as I had just finished charging the battery overnight. The battery worked fine when I had the plugs out and was just turning the engine over to get oil moved around. I will get the battery checked tomorrow as well to see if it is bad after sitting for several years.
    The lead plates inside batteries do sulfate over time, causing weak current capacity. I doubt that's the problem though since it usually takes several years of sitting for that to happen. Perhaps your battery terminals weren't tight? Or corroded? Or the aftermarket terminals you clamped onto the ends of your cables are loose on the wire?

  5. #1155
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Thanks Dave;

    So, I went and got the battery tested and it passed but barely so I just got a new one to confirm no issues.

    I came back and went underneath to check again on the starter alignment. It is, indeed, binding again.... It was working great the other day so I went through the shimming process to no success just now. I had all the shims in place so almost 3/16" of shims and still binding so I think there is another alignment issue versus the just the distance.

    Going to do some googling to see if there is something I am missing.

    And yes Dave, I think you are correct with the clutch switch or possibly a blown fusible link to the ign switch. Will get to that one after I get the start working correctly. Fighting me all the way....

    BTW Dave, your build is looking amazing. Nice front hood work.

    Thanks for the help
    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
    Prova Countach 5000QV

  6. #1156
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    I plan to get out some whiteout or white paint and will be painting the bendix gear tonight to check actual alignment and placement of the bendix gear to see where I need to go with alignment shims.

    More to come but work is getting in the way of progress right now.
    308 Ferrari replica
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  7. #1157
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    Are the flywheel ring gear and the Bendix gear matched properly? Do they come from the same model engine?

  8. #1158
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    I believe they do..... I had that issue initially where I was trying to mate a '96 starter to the '88 Fiero flywheel I am using and it REALLY didn't mate. I went and got a new starter and started the alignment over again.... I will confirm the starter I got is the correct one for an '88. Wouldn't that just be the frosting where I got it wrong twice?

    Edit: Confirmed the starter fits all year v6 Fieros and, as it turns out, 4 cyl as well.

    Back to the alignment fun.
    Last edited by Don; 01-15-2020 at 06:13 PM.
    308 Ferrari replica
    Prova Countach 5000QV

  9. #1159
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Went out tonight and had a look at teh starter and there was already a paint mark on the gear so took a pic below. I also noticed that the gear is already pretty darn worn near the ends and rounding off on the gear teeth. This is a new starter so there is certainly some binding going on but the location of the marks in the paint make it look like it is pretty darn close to the right spot?? Kept the pic full size for more detail when looking at it....

    Maybe still a bit too close to the flywheel? As best I could I also put a 1/8" allen key up and measured between the starter shaft and the flywheel and it was VERY close to 1/8" which seems to be the well known distance for the shaft out.

    Thoughts?

    Last edited by Don; 01-16-2020 at 02:24 AM.
    308 Ferrari replica
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  10. #1160
    Senior Member MacGyver's Avatar
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    Hi Don,

    I was reading about your starter issue. I'm not completely certain but I believe I'm using the 3.4 starter on my car. I can put it up on the lift this weekend and confirm that if you like. I just went out in the garage with a light and tried to look under the car at the starter. If I remember correctly the 3.4 starter is smaller than the Fiero one. Is that correct? If so, That's what I am using and it has been working fine. I was trying to look through my old receipts but couldn't find one for the starter. Let me know if you want a couple of picks and I'll pick the car up.

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