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Thread: Ferrari 288 GTO - BUILD - Project

  1. #1161
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Thanks very much Sean. I appreciate the offer. I am now not sure I have the right flywheel in there........all is directing me that way

    I went out again last night and measured the starter gap with a 1/8" Allen key again and shimmed the starter to where it was pretty much bang on. It took 1/16" worth of shims which is more normal on any other starter I have ever dealt with. Put paint on all the starter gears for contact patch. Turned the starter over and the bendix gear would sometimes retract partial way so I am closer. Contact patch looked pretty good really. In the middle of the gear and then cleaned off outward vs inward which was good. To confirm I was close or if I could improve, added one more 1/64" shim no change and then retracted one more shim so I was at 3/64" and no change. At this point I had worn out the battery so put it on charge and came inside to start investigating.

    I did a bunch of searching over on Pennocks and various folks used different starters on their swaps. Like Sean, one guy used the '96 starter with no issues. Another used a 3400 SFI starter with no issues. Some used Fiero starter. So, at this point I am "What the hell?".... Looked up '96 Lumina dohc and the flex plate is the same diameter, thickness and number of teeth as the 88 Fiero. 12", .8" and 142 teeth. Again... back to "What the hell?".

    So now, I have a narrowed thought that maybe after all these years I might have the wrong flywheel. I bought two flywheels so many years ago and used the other one in another Fiero clutch repair with no issues but this one has sat on the shelf for probably 15 years. I am just about of ideas. I am going out this morning to have a wonderful 1/2 hour counting how many teeth are on the flywheel. If it is 142 teeth, or I guess seven if it isn't 142 teeth, I will be pulling the engine and cradle out today to be able to take the transaxle off and get better access to the flywheel. I can do the testing etc. on the engine and flywheel without being on my back under the car.

    What a bitch this is turning out to be......

    Any other ideas before i pull the cradle would be great.....

    Thanks
    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
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  2. #1162
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    OK so a half hour later, 142 teeth.....

    And I looked at both my starters that should work with this flywheel and the Fiero starter has 9 teeth and the high torque 96 starter has 11... And they are both supposed to work with the same flywheel.. At this point, if they both work, I am going back to the high torque as it turned the motor over better so will work to maybe get that shimmed correctly again to see if it works.

    This so so messed up.
    308 Ferrari replica
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  3. #1163
    Senior Member MacGyver's Avatar
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    Wow Don, what a mess. Hopefully you won't need to pull the cradle out again. Is you 96 starter new or rebuilt? I never trust rebuilt stuff. Did you inspect the trans housing and starter casing for cracks causing a misalignment? Are you using the proper starter bolts. I wouldn't think you would need anymore than a couple of very thin shims if any at all. Is it possible your flywheel isn't for a Fiero?

    I da-nooo… just trying to come up with some ideas.

  4. #1164
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    Since it seems like the only thing you changed between your two first cranking attempts was the position of the clutch pedal, is it possible your pressure plate is rubbing on the inside of the transmission housing? I ask because you said the starter spun the engine freely when you were priming the oil system, but you were turning the engine over by jumping battery power across the solenoid terminal. When you were doing this, you presumably had the clutch engaged (pedal out). Then when you tried to start it with all the circuits hooked up and energized, you had to depress the clutch pedal to close the neutral safety switch, but in doing so, you moved the pressure plate toward the bell housing. If you have an aftermarket performance clutch, it may have a thicker stack height than stock and there may only be enough clearance to the bell housing when the clutch is engaged (pedal out).

    You could try bypassing the neutral safety switch temporarily to avoid having to press the clutch pedal to crank the engine (just make sure it's out of gear!). If it cranks freely, then your pressure plate is rubbing on the bell housing when you have the clutch disengaged.
    Last edited by Bloozberry; 01-18-2020 at 10:29 PM.

  5. #1165
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Ok.... went back to the high torque starter and did more lining up and shimming and it engages the flywheel and releases. I think I just had the shimming out to lunch on it..... took the Fiero starter back and got the refund.

    So, now on to why I am not getting the fuel pump and ign switch....

    Progress but still barriers....

    Thanks for all the input folks

    More to come

  6. #1166
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    After some more work on the car, I am now tracking down the power issue to the ign switch etc.

    When I was beginning down the starting the car road, I was able to turn the ignition switch to ON and the fuel pump would prime as Fieros are supposed to do. After a few of those and trying to start from the ign switch, I no longer have the pump priming.

    What I have done so far:


    1. Checked all fuses and found one 5 amp fuse to the ign 2 injectors blown so replaced that. The 10 amp ign fuse looks good but will replace tomorrow anyway just to be sure as I don't have one here tonight
    2. Checked clutch neutral switch
    1. When I turn ignition on to ON position, I get 12V at the yellow wire. In reading on Pennocks, that is not supposed to be the case. It is supposed to be zero at ON and then 12V when key is at start position??
    4. I then checked power to the solenoid purple cable with key turned to start and no power there either.
    5. I have power to other accessories as my rad fan comes on right away and doesn't turn off and the engine bay fan in the trunk comes on. I disconnected both of those for now until I move on to those issues....


    Will be doing a pile more searching tonight to see if I can narrow down the issue but does anything jump out for anyone?


    Thanks
    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
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  7. #1167
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Honest to gawd I hope this is all entertaining to everyone..... I am starting to just laugh now.

    So. I looked at the clutch the other day when I was working on getting the starter sorted and didn't want to have to push in the clutch every time. I saw the switch with yellow wire to it so thought "Hey, that is the neutral safety switch." So, I pulled it out and shorted it out between the two wires, one yellow, and all was well. So..... there are two switches on the clutch. One for the neutral safety switch and the other as part of the cruise control. I was messing with the cruise control...... I was looking over on Pennocks and I landed on a page where Bloozberry was helping someone else out on the Neutral switch and showing picture and I realized the switch he was showing was not the switch I had been working with....

    Short story long, I pulled the plug out, shorted the two wires, again yellow and another colour and low and behold the car turned over from the ignition...

    What a journey this has been. I don't think I am getting fuel pump pressure yet though so on to the next item of entertainment......

    Cheers
    Don
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  8. #1168
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    More progress.

    Had to replace a relay for the fuel pump and now have fuel confirmed at the rail.
    I have power to the DIS and confirmed spark at at least one spark plug.

    Now I don't seem to have my injectors firing? Plugs I took out were dry as a bone so no fuel at all coming in to the cylinders.
    Confirmed 10 amp fuse in INJ 1 and 2 on fuse block good. Looked at the wiring diagram for the injector controller and it is two dark blue wires coming out of the ECm but I see two sets of dark blue wires.... Not sure how to confirm power going to the injectors. I guess I pull one of the plugs off and turn the engine over to see if there is power pulses coming to the plug?

    Thoughts?
    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
    Prova Countach 5000QV

  9. #1169
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    OK another mystery unraveled. Back, way back when I was getting the first DOHC back in Calgary, I bought a 94 or 95 DOHC. I had a fellow build my wiring loom with a 91-93 ecm and 94/95 engine. Well, in he end, after way too many years that I have forgotten too many things, I have a 967 engine with a 91-93 ecm.

    Now, I was out there today tracing wires to figure out why my injectors were not working at all. As it turns out, I have my two injector wires coming from the ecm going into one pin on the black plug going to the engine. Both my wires coming from the injectors themselves go to a pin in the grey plug and the other to a third plug that I don't even have in my loom.. That got me thinking about what else would be different since I have three plugs coming off the engine and two plugs coming from the ecm.

    I am heading back over to Pennock's now to see what the differences are between a 96 wiring loom and a 94/95 loom and decide whether I do the changes myself or get someone to make a new wiring loom for me....

    Bummer but I now remember that there were quite a few difference for the 94/95 engines compared to the 91-93 and then the other side to the 96 and 97....

    Chinese water torture continues
    Don
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  10. #1170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Chinese water torture continues
    Don
    LOL... I don't know much about the DOHC engines, so I can't help you out there, but having three connectors and only two ports usually signifies a problem! Sounds like you're on the right track though... you might simply have the wrong ECM plugged in.

    Once that's figured out, if you still have problems with no injectors firing, then it's possible they're stuck after all these years of not being used. I had that problem with my TPI engine many moons ago... the fuel in them turned sticky. I got them working after heating them with a hair dryer though, then running some injector cleaner through the fuel after the engine was running. If you only suspect one or two injectors, you can use a screwdriver with the blade resting on the injector housing, and the handle tight against your ear. You'll hear if the injector is working by a distinct clicking sound. Good luck!

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