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Thread: Drivetrain question

  1. #1

    Drivetrain question

    Hey guys, been lurking here for a while now so thought I would join finally.

    I plan to build a veyron on a tube chassis or donor of some type (haven't decided as of yet)

    Right now I have a vw phaeton w12 which my wife rolled and is just sitting. My thought was to use it as a drivetrain donor for my build.

    I'm wondering if I'm able to rotate everything around and place it mid engine like the veyron.

    Things that concern me are wheels spinning the wrong direction? can this be solved by flipping the trans upside down? even possible? I've read some porsche boxes can do this.. what about getting a custom ring gear cut?

    also same concerns with the center diff.. being backwards and the rear diff which will be mounted up front... again, do I have to flip that upside down or some kind of custom internals?

    Finally does anyone know a company which makes wheels which look like these?
    http://www.mibz.com/wp-content/uploa...03-500x335.jpg

    Thanks guys looking to get started on this project soon.

  2. #2
    Senior Member AdrianBurton's Avatar
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    Re: Drivetrain question

    THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!

    I like the way you are thinking, I asked the same question a few months ago and came to the conclusion that it would be hard to do ($$$$$). If you flip the drivetrain around you end up with a lot of weight behind the axle centerline. What would be most effective cost wise (if you want 4wd) would be to use a truck 4wd setup. Turn the engine around, belts to bumper, use a standard rwd trans to a divorced 4wd gearbox, to diffs front and rear. Like Kevin Lyons did from kitcentral on his 6.0 (rwd) build

  3. #3

    Re: Drivetrain question

    thats not a bad idea. I read though his build on kitcentral..

    I also found something interesting this morning, there is a GTI with mid engine w12 concept.. one was built and I'm trying to find out more details but it seems to be impossible.

    I may just scrap the awd idea and go mid engine instead. I could still use 80% of the mechanics/electronics from the phaeton still and forget about the awd headache.

    a really cool feature is the phaeton has air suspension which I hope to adapt into a user controllable mode so ride height can be adjusted just like the real veyron when unlocking the extra fast mode.

    right now I'm leaning toward a tueb chassis designed around using the phaeton suspension/steering/braking components and go from there.

    Also still looking for a match on those rims

  4. #4
    Senior Member AdrianBurton's Avatar
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    Re: Drivetrain question

    That is a good idea, there was a compant that built a chassis that used all audi components, cant remember the name off the top of my head, but I have pics.

    I know the GTi that you are talking about it uses the gallardo trans in the back.
    But if you could locate a FWD Phaeton you would be in luck plus it would just bolt up. I think I remember some of those boxes showing up on cars delivered to the middle east, Im thinking Dubi. I think tit is a o1e 6spd that was used.......

    I think this link to top gear goes into detail
    http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-...650_138485.htm

    There was a link to the unveil of that car at one of the premere v-dub (GTi) car shows in 07 that the car was built for it was the 2007 Wörthersee meet

  5. #5

    Re: Drivetrain question

    gallardo trans is out of the question. One would think the trans would cost more then the GTI itself lol.

    I did jump on vwvortex to read up on the phaeton forums and they do have a fwd phaeton which was a v6. used a 6speed box 0e1 something like you mentioned and apparently is the same box from the 2000 gen passat 2.8. It was speculated that this box would bolt up to the v8 and v10 engines but apparently the w12 uses its own 5 speed box. This concerns me as I`d be curious if the bellhousing would still bolt up and if it would even hold 500whp from the w12...

  6. #6
    Senior Member AdrianBurton's Avatar
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    Re: Drivetrain question

    I would find it hard to believe that VAG would make and engine that required a trans that was different from all other gearboxes, especially since:

    1) VAG believes in component sharing across platforms.
    2) there are not enough uses for the W12 to justify a unique gearbox for that engine alone.

    I do know that there is a 01E that had "diesel like" gearing that was used behind that engine, I will have to do some diging for the PN but it is definitely a 01E box.

  7. #7

    Re: Drivetrain question

    you are probably right...

    this is what I found of vwvortex

    "6-speed manual gearbox was available for model years 2002 and 2003 in Europe. It was mated with the 3.2l V6 engine and had front-wheel drive only. This is a pretty rare combination and it was dropped because nobody wanted a Phaeton with manual gearbox."

    "The manual gearbox for Phaeton carries part number 1E0 300 046 (H). It is the same part as is used in VW Passat 2.8's from early 2000's.

    Here are a few assumptions (which I cannot verify in more detail right now):

    - The mating of the gearbox to the engine has to be somewhat compatible between (most of all) Phaeton engines. This is because the ZF 6HP-series automatic transmission is used for V6 gasoline, V8 gasoline and both diesels (W12 has different 5-speed box). So, in principle it should be easy to convert any of those 6-speed auto trannies to a 6-speed manual using original Phaeton parts BUT that would mean front-wheel drive only.

    - Obviously you want to keep the 4 wheel drive. Here you might have the option of using a tranny from a early-2000's Passat 2.8 Syncro. They were available with 6-speed manuals and torsen 4-wheel drive. The only concern here might be that the 2.8 has about 200 horsepower and I suppose the tranny will not cope with the torque of a V8.

    - Then, there is the Audi A8. The D3 platform S8 was available with a manual transmission. This transmission is rare: it was not available in the US and is not very common in Europe, either. It could be a direct fit, as the automatic alternative for the A8 is the same 6HP-series ZF box (I am not 100% sure this is true for the S8 which has a V10 engine)."


    Like I said my only concern now would be the gearbox holding the power.. I dont plan to do any launches or clutch drops but If I plant my foot in second, hit redline and shift for 3rd I dont want gearbox parts dropping out of the back of my car haha.

    Heres a better question, if the above manual box works, would there be a similar auto box? The veyron isn`t exactly a stick shift car so I`d be leaning toward more of a auto

  8. #8
    Senior Member AdrianBurton's Avatar
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    Re: Drivetrain question

    Not sure but it only makes sense, the 01X is supposed to be stronger than the 016, and the GT 40s guys have been been using them quite successfully, so I think that we will be ok. Besides there is another guy (Hilley) in the UK with the Audi V8 with no problems.

    I am not sure how you would hack the trans controller, but I imaginr that you can get one that can interface with the harness that you have now sine there was/ is a 2wd variant sou it should not be a big deal..... yeah I know famous last words ;D

    You could also speak to scott dewit of http://www.advancedautomotion.com
    He is a wealth of knowledge when it come to the audi boxes, I think that he currently has a awd that is putting down 700+

  9. #9
    Senior Member Dangerrous's Avatar
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    Re: Drivetrain question

    I had the same communication problem with my ecu's. Although mine is older the engine ecu is bieng rewritten by shark performance, maybe they could help with the reprogramming of the engine ecu to make it a stand alone unit like mine?
    D

  10. #10

    Re: Drivetrain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerrous
    I had the same communication problem with my ecu's. Although mine is older the engine ecu is bieng rewritten by shark performance, maybe they could help with the reprogramming of the engine ecu to make it a stand alone unit like mine?
    D
    which ecu's are you talking about? I'll have to look into shark performance then.. what is the cost to reflash the ecu?

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