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Thread: When?

  1. #1
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    When?

    Hi,

    First, I'd just like to say I'm completely new to this so I'll probably have it all wrong.

    OK, I race karts over here in the UK and am currently learning to drive in a little Ford Fiesta. It's fine for the moment while I practice scraping every wall in town but I don't want to be stuck with it because it is just rubbish.

    I'm looking at something like a GTM Libra or a Murtaya. They both look good fun and I would put a small engine in to keep the insurance down. They both seem pretty practical.

    As I said earlier, I have no idea about Kit-Cars really. So, what sort of figure is the insurance likely to be and when do you guys suggest I should get one? Do you think I could get rid of the Fiesta about 4-5 months after passing my test or is it more likely to be a few years? I'm a pretty capable driver, I've been racing since I was 8 so I don't think driving it will be a problem, just worried about prices because I have no idea!

    Cheers

    EasyDude

  2. #2
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    Re: When?

    Easydude,

    The Kit car scene can be a little misleading when your taking your first look at it from the outside.

    Think of it like this:

    You want to buy a Fake Rolex because you like the look, but can't spare the big cash for "just" a watch.
    You look around, and there are lots of cheap replicas that say "Rolex" on them, but are also easily recognizable as fake, barely even looking the part compared to the real deal.
    You look harder and find some that look really good, but they're also not that cheap.
    You look harder still, and find some that look so close to genuine that you would need to be a jeweler or a Rolex dealer to tell from the authentic. But these are 1/2 the price of a real one with only things like the inner watch mechanics being the biggest difference.
    Then you discover guys that put real swiss movements in the really good replicas so the performance is even close to the real deal too (now your talking 3/5 the price of the real deal)
    Then you find that you can get real Rolex cases and movements, albeit from different models, and build a watch that is 100% Rolex, just not a factory model, and not exactly right because the movement type is for a different model than your case/band etc. ( 4/5 the price of the real deal though) and all the time and effort involved makes you wonder if you should have just broke down and came off the cash to buy a "REAL" one and saved yourself the hassle. Plus, as it's not 100% exact, you'll never be able to sell it, trade it in, for what you got in it.

    The same is true for kit cars. You decide what level of accuracy you are comfortable/satisfied with and what you can afford. The mistake would be in choosing a kit based on what you can afford, and it not being the level of accuracy you would be satisfied with. Then you get frustrated, feel you paid too much for something that wasn't what you wanted in the end. The better the replica the more it costs, and the longer it takes to build.

  3. #3
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    Re: When?

    I bought a rolex replica watch in Cambodia for 20 bux and it broke in 10 days LOL. It looked so realistic compared to a real one (held beside it) only diff was the knobs to change the settings were too tight and that it couldnt keep time....

  4. #4
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    Mar 2008
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    Re: When?

    Quote Originally Posted by jntramey
    Easydude,

    The Kit car scene can be a little misleading when your taking your first look at it from the outside.

    Think of it like this:

    You want to buy a Fake Rolex because you like the look, but can't spare the big cash for "just" a watch.
    You look around, and there are lots of cheap replicas that say "Rolex" on them, but are also easily recognizable as fake, barely even looking the part compared to the real deal.
    You look harder and find some that look really good, but they're also not that cheap.
    You look harder still, and find some that look so close to genuine that you would need to be a jeweler or a Rolex dealer to tell from the authentic. But these are 1/2 the price of a real one with only things like the inner watch mechanics being the biggest difference.
    Then you discover guys that put real swiss movements in the really good replicas so the performance is even close to the real deal too (now your talking 3/5 the price of the real deal)
    Then you find that you can get real Rolex cases and movements, albeit from different models, and build a watch that is 100% Rolex, just not a factory model, and not exactly right because the movement type is for a different model than your case/band etc. ( 4/5 the price of the real deal though) and all the time and effort involved makes you wonder if you should have just broke down and came off the cash to buy a "REAL" one and saved yourself the hassle. Plus, as it's not 100% exact, you'll never be able to sell it, trade it in, for what you got in it.

    The same is true for kit cars. You decide what level of accuracy you are comfortable/satisfied with and what you can afford. The mistake would be in choosing a kit based on what you can afford, and it not being the level of accuracy you would be satisfied with. Then you get frustrated, feel you paid too much for something that wasn't what you wanted in the end. The better the replica the more it costs, and the longer it takes to build.
    Well said.

  5. #5
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    Re: When?

    Very well said...

  6. #6
    Senior Member murcie-me's Avatar
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    Re: When?

    I hate to rain on this parade, but I disagree with the last part of the analogy. It is very possible to sell a replica for more than you have got into it. Look at Steve from Triangle-G. He has about 15-18K in his builds, and sells them easily for 35-40K. Another guy Ted, from RARECARS.org, is the same case. He typically sells a replica for 40-45K, and has about 22-25K invested. Many people cant get their money out of these cars because they pay way to much for the labor to build them. When my build is complete, I will have about 36K in material (parts) and about 13K in labor costs (painter, body man, upholsterer, frame strecher, body mounter, exhaust installation, etc), not including my own. That puts my car complete at just around 50K. I know I could easily sell it for 65-70K ( I already had an offer of 65K and the car is not even done yet). My point is, people are willing to pay for a QUALITY BUILT replica. Look on Ebay at the cars that are offered there. Most look good in pictures, but in person, lack the presence of an exotic car, and fall well below the norm as far as quality goes. Mant people who build these cars dont have any real experience in the field. In the end, the car has been Mickey-Moused together, and amount of money invested in the car can never be re-couped due to the quality of the finished product.
    Getting back to Triangle-G, his cars look gorgeous in person, but NOTHING works. Not the bat-wings, not the spoiler, not the A/C, not the guages, not the windows, etc, etc. All his work is eye-wash, but it sells cars/kits. If you've ever seen one of his cars in person, you'd know what I mean.
    Anyway, if you know what you're doing, turning a profit in this hobby is not hard to do. Pay attention to details, spend the smart money, and if you dont know,- ask!. You'll get it all back in the end if you do it right.
    Without talent experience is worthless

  7. #7
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    Re: When?

    Certainly true, however, this is not the case for the majority of built cars, as your own response states. But, yes, I was incorrect in stating that none of the builders get there $ back out of the car, because there are semi-pro, and professional builders, who make a good profit doing so as you so rightly indicated. I was speaking of the "average joe" shade tree mechanic, which is what I gathered this young man's experience would be as he said he didn't know much about kit cars to begin with. I forgot to stipulate that there are exceptions, many of whom frequent this forum, and we are very aware of the high quality of car they produce. But in all fairness, not everyone, certainly not your average Joe novice, has the experience or skill set to produce a car of that quality on their first try.

  8. #8
    Senior Member murcie-me's Avatar
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    Re: When?

    Very true.
    Without talent experience is worthless

  9. #9

    Re: When?

    Quote Originally Posted by MURCI-ME
    I hate to rain on this parade, but I disagree with the last part of the analogy. It is very possible to sell a replica for more than you have got into it. Look at Steve from Triangle-G. He has about 15-18K in his builds, and sells them easily for 35-40K. Another guy Ted, from RARECARS.org, is the same case. He typically sells a replica for 40-45K, and has about 22-25K invested. Many people cant get their money out of these cars because they pay way to much for the labor to build them. When my build is complete, I will have about 36K in material (parts) and about 13K in labor costs (painter, body man, upholsterer, frame strecher, body mounter, exhaust installation, etc), not including my own. That puts my car complete at just around 50K. I know I could easily sell it for 65-70K ( I already had an offer of 65K and the car is not even done yet). My point is, people are willing to pay for a QUALITY BUILT replica. Look on Ebay at the cars that are offered there. Most look good in pictures, but in person, lack the presence of an exotic car, and fall well below the norm as far as quality goes. Mant people who build these cars dont have any real experience in the field. In the end, the car has been Mickey-Moused together, and amount of money invested in the car can never be re-couped due to the quality of the finished product.
    Getting back to Triangle-G, his cars look gorgeous in person, but NOTHING works. Not the bat-wings, not the spoiler, not the A/C, not the guages, not the windows, etc, etc. All his work is eye-wash, but it sells cars/kits. If you've ever seen one of his cars in person, you'd know what I mean.
    Anyway, if you know what you're doing, turning a profit in this hobby is not hard to do. Pay attention to details, spend the smart money, and if you dont know,- ask!. You'll get it all back in the end if you do it right.
    I can't see how 65-70k would get you your money back when you have 50k plus in parts and outside labour. You would certainly have more thatn 15-20k invested in your own time , heat , electricity etc. etc. I have built and sold a couple of kits and have barely covered my costs and that's doing just about everything including paint and some of the interior. Your time would be better invested in a part time job at home depot. I have however made money in tooling and selling bodies. The money and the only money in this so called industry is in selling the parts, partially completed kits and dreams. That's why the finished kits you referred to from Triangle-G are as you described, if he attempted to finish them any better he would lose his shirt. Just my 2 cents. ;D


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