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Ferrari 308 Replica Rebuild and Upgrade Project

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  • More progress.

    Had to replace a relay for the fuel pump and now have fuel confirmed at the rail.
    I have power to the DIS and confirmed spark at at least one spark plug.

    Now I don't seem to have my injectors firing? Plugs I took out were dry as a bone so no fuel at all coming in to the cylinders.
    Confirmed 10 amp fuse in INJ 1 and 2 on fuse block good. Looked at the wiring diagram for the injector controller and it is two dark blue wires coming out of the ECm but I see two sets of dark blue wires.... Not sure how to confirm power going to the injectors. I guess I pull one of the plugs off and turn the engine over to see if there is power pulses coming to the plug?

    Thoughts?
    Don
    308 Ferrari replica
    Prova Countach 5000S

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    • OK another mystery unraveled. Back, way back when I was getting the first DOHC back in Calgary, I bought a 94 or 95 DOHC. I had a fellow build my wiring loom with a 91-93 ecm and 94/95 engine. Well, in he end, after way too many years that I have forgotten too many things, I have a 967 engine with a 91-93 ecm.

      Now, I was out there today tracing wires to figure out why my injectors were not working at all. As it turns out, I have my two injector wires coming from the ecm going into one pin on the black plug going to the engine. Both my wires coming from the injectors themselves go to a pin in the grey plug and the other to a third plug that I don't even have in my loom.. That got me thinking about what else would be different since I have three plugs coming off the engine and two plugs coming from the ecm.

      I am heading back over to Pennock's now to see what the differences are between a 96 wiring loom and a 94/95 loom and decide whether I do the changes myself or get someone to make a new wiring loom for me....

      Bummer but I now remember that there were quite a few difference for the 94/95 engines compared to the 91-93 and then the other side to the 96 and 97....

      Chinese water torture continues
      Don
      308 Ferrari replica
      Prova Countach 5000S

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      • Originally posted by Don View Post
        Chinese water torture continues
        Don
        LOL... I don't know much about the DOHC engines, so I can't help you out there, but having three connectors and only two ports usually signifies a problem! Sounds like you're on the right track though... you might simply have the wrong ECM plugged in.

        Once that's figured out, if you still have problems with no injectors firing, then it's possible they're stuck after all these years of not being used. I had that problem with my TPI engine many moons ago... the fuel in them turned sticky. I got them working after heating them with a hair dryer though, then running some injector cleaner through the fuel after the engine was running. If you only suspect one or two injectors, you can use a screwdriver with the blade resting on the injector housing, and the handle tight against your ear. You'll hear if the injector is working by a distinct clicking sound. Good luck!

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        • Thanks Dave;

          I think it will be a matter of figuring out how different the wiring harnesses are between the two years and see if it is within my capabilities to correct. Means pulling the cradle though so I can get full access to the plugs and wiring loom and trace wires properly. Will finish cleaning and painting the engine bay at that time as well.

          More to come this week hopefully
          Don
          308 Ferrari replica
          Prova Countach 5000S

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          • Ok so tracing wires and I have a plan..... I got a new harness plug to match up the wires for the injectors on the engine harness. The '96 has sequential firing so 6 control wires, 1 each going to each injector on the engine side but because the '91-'93 ecm has batch firing, I only have two injector control wires coming from the ecm. The two wires both fire simultaneously so my pan is: Take the injector wires from the current engine harness and move them to the new plug. On the engine bay harness side I will take my two control wires and wire them into three injector wires each. I will control each side by one control wire and then I will move the fused 10 amp circuit that goes to the other wires in the injectors one each to each side as well. I will then have 3 injectors wired to one control wire and one fused power wire from the Fiero fuse block, INJ 1 and INJ 2 10 amp fuses. Looks like, from what I can tell so far, the rest of the wires match up but a few more to trace out.

            Looking good. More to come
            308 Ferrari replica
            Prova Countach 5000S

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            • Quick update. Got the injectors wired up to the ECM. Wired 1,3,5 to D3 and 2,4,6 to D9 and used the INJ2 fused wire from the fuse block to power the injectors, I was able to put all injector wires into a new, separate connector so they are separate. I have been tracing the remaining wires off the 96 engine harness today and have it all detailed in a spreadsheet but now with all 4 wiring diagrams (91/93, 94/95, 96 and Fiero where needed) I am getting confused on the harness side so going to go trace the ecm side wires on the car to see how it was working out. I can map the 91-93 to the 94-95 and confirm colours and pin outs from the ecm and then translate that to the 96 engine harness. My plan anyway. We will have to see how successful that plan will be tomorrow.

              Have I mentioned before how much I enjoy wiring?.........
              308 Ferrari replica
              Prova Countach 5000S

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              • Latest update. I know WAY more about this wiring harness than I wanted to. I have mapped and reconfigured pretty much EVERY wire on the engine harness. It appears that the 96+ engine harness moved every wire from the grey plug used in 91-95 harness to the black plug on the '96 engine and added new sensors to the grey plug. Also moved all injector wires to the third, new plug introduced in 96+. Well, I have them all mapped and written down. Will be updating the spreadsheet drawing I have so I can share here for others that want to go down this wild and wonderful adventure. I am still a bit confused on the EGR wiring but will ask some wiring experts over on Pennock's on that one as the earlier versions use 4 wires three of which enable the relays in the egr and the 96+ uses 5 wires and what appears to be only two wires than engage the relays...... I will try one more time to get the 96 egr wired up and if it doesn't work, I will move on.

                On other updates in the harness, I pretty much think I have everything wired to where it should run now. Possibly not well when cold if it is expecting the EGR to work. I turned the engine over and no fire so checked a plug and no fuel still. My next round will be to take an injector wire off and engage the injector by power to one side and ground to the other. Should make the injector engage and I should hear the click. If that is the case, then look into power to the pink (again) and if that works then I am not getting the signal from D3/D9.

                That goes into ecm troubleshooting. I have an ALDL connector to usb connector coming and downloaded TunerPro to see what the settings and codes are in the ECM and carry on from there. I am wondering if a sensor is not being read so no start as I am 99% sure the theft control has been mapped out of teh ECM flash. Work taking up the first couple days of this week so hope to get out there either tonight or tomorrow night to keep going.

                Enjoy
                Don

                Wiring 101.......

                308 Ferrari replica
                Prova Countach 5000S

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                • Keep going Don! Iím sure youíll get it running and driving soon. Thanks for posting so we can all learn from your efforts . - Vinny
                  Remember, there is always next year.

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                  • My current status of the wiring and troubleshooting. I am still not getting the injectors to fire.


                    I have confirmed the pink wire going to the injectors has 12V in run. I have confirmed that when putting power and ground to the injectors, they will fire. The three I can get to anyway. I just don't seem to have the signal coming from D3/D9 on the 91-93 ECM. That tells me I am looking to the ECM for next steps.


                    I have ordered an ALDL connector and hopefully it gets here soon. I tried shorting out the A and B terminals on the ALDL with a troubleshooting light but no lights or codes showed. Not saying there are no codes, just didn't come through with the trouble light.


                    One point I found in the troubleshooting was B10 in the ECM diagrams says power at all times but I don't get power on B10 until I put into Run?


                    Are there other sensors or triggers inside the 91-93 that I need to check out so I can get power to the injectors? Any other items anyone can think of that will help push me forward and troubleshoot the ECM before I get my ALDL cable? I will be using TunerPro as well to get the settings and codes out as a starting point.


                    Any help appreciated.
                    Don
                    308 Ferrari replica
                    Prova Countach 5000S

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                    • Originally posted by Don View Post
                      I just don't seem to have the signal coming from D3/D9 on the 91-93 ECM. That tells me I am looking to the ECM for next steps.

                      I tried shorting out the A and B terminals on the ALDL with a troubleshooting light but no lights or codes showed. Not saying there are no codes, just didn't come through with the trouble light.
                      It's not clear what you're doing is the right way to check for codes. If you're connecting a test light between ALDL terminals A&B and expecting it to flash codes, it doesn't work that way. You have to connect A&B together, then check for 12V pulses (either with a multimeter or by connecting one lead from a 12V test light to the SES light output terminal on the ECM, and grounding the other lead). If you don't get code 12 flashing at least three times on the SES light output terminal, your ECM is fried.

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                      • And there you have part of it. Thanks very much Dave. Yes I was doing it all wrong..... I will check this way in the morning. I am also going to check all my ECM grounds are also connected correctly as the injectors are grounded through the ecm so I want to confirm I get grounded correctly through the ECM.

                        More to check.

                        Thanks
                        Don
                        308 Ferrari replica
                        Prova Countach 5000S

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                        • I have ran into a couple times with no injector pulse to be map sensor related either wrong map or pinned incorrectly. May be a place to start
                          .

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                          • hi Don; didn't realize you were using a 91-93 ecm. If yours somehow turns out to be faulty I have one in my garage you're welcome to. Came from a manual trans Z34. Never been opened nor the plugs removed. Can ship it out, I can't use it for what I am doing. LMK. I'm near Niagara Falls, ON.

                            GP

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                            • Don't rely on ground coming from ECM. Normally all sensors and injectors should be grounded on the engine to avoid unnecessary length of wire not that it will make that much of a difference. them the engine is in turn grounded to chassis with a heavy cable and if possible directly to battery. I'm not saying that ground is the issue but something to be consider. Also make sure that you do have good ground at the ECM and proper voltages for constant on and switched power.
                              http://www.mychimaera.com
                              http://www.my240z.info

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                              • Fantastic ideas and feedback folks.

                                85-308:
                                If you are willing to part with the ECM, please send your info to my email address in my profile and I will pay you for it. Great to have a backup at a minimum anyway.

                                jb1:
                                I thought the same about the pins so I traced each wire in the loom and the harness and found that I was not even close to matching up with the pins on the engine top so i rewired all those plugs. I am pretty darn confident in those now except for the EGR which has different numbers of wires between the 96 engine and the 91-95.

                                chimera:
                                The injectors are fuse 12v fed from INJ2 fuse now and the ECM feeds D5/D9 on the 91-95 ECM actually ground out the injectors through the signals so I need to run those back through the ECM. I agree with all the other grounds though and have them grounded in the wiring harness at regular intervals along the path where a bunch of grounds are locally available.

                                I did get another set of diagrams for the 91-93 ECM off the gearhead-efi site last night and confirmed what grounds should be in place on the ecm more clearly than my other diagrams so checking those out this morning.

                                More to come, hopefully with an engine sounds rather than an update saying I am closer but still no fire.....

                                Don
                                308 Ferrari replica
                                Prova Countach 5000S

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