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What makes a replica kit car inferior & why cars depreciate/appreciate?

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  • overzealous1
    replied
    i totally agree with above and will add a couple points. alot of these high end car companies have to support their race heritage and current race car developments. alot of these developments make it into their street cars, and then 10 years later the technology gets copied by others into cheaper or higher produced cars. alot of these companies are responsible for the advances in auto technology and that r&d needs to get paid for somehow.
    i believe the value drops so fast is just due to the simple fact that most that can buy the $300k+ cars pay in cash. if you have that much money laying around, you will probably have even more in a year or 2 when the next greatest model comes out. now the people in the market to buy your used 2-3 year old $300k car will also be doing it in cash. they could possibly extend a little further and buy the newest model, but for the right price they will settle for a car a few years older. hence, price is only dictated by demand. simple as that. the gtr and the ford gt are the only cars i have seen hold their value very close to msrp still.
    alot of people including myself have a certain passion for cars and their historic value, original car historic value. funny you mentioned the testarossa, as it is a perfect example. the testarossa was the saving grace for ferrari after nearly being wiped off the map by the famous coutach. there was no way the company could survive with the 308 which evolved into the 328 against the then (and still in many eyes) most beautiful supercar made, the countach. i myself cannot believe the testarossa can be had for $50-60k now with such history behind it as basically saving ferrari itself. i personally almost bought one but knowing me i would of twin turboed it and a koenigsigg widebody kit on it in a jiffy. i researched a used tranny that i would surely blow up and $25k was abit steep. still on my guilty pleasure list though.
    so yes you can build a car that looks just like it, even outperforms it. but, it will never be the actual car that rolled out of the original assembly line that evoked so many posters and has changed or evolved history of the auto as we know it. if you have ever driven a true exotic you can also really see the engineering (for the cars era ofcourse) and the engines are remarkable in their power delivery.
    i personally have never really been into replica cars (though i did own and restore a manta briefly) but can see the benefits. yes you can pick up a 355 spider for $55k now. but, check the insurance out. you will be paying through the nose. so if on a budget, you can have the look, yet not have the recurring investment monthly or the large investment when it comes time to do scheduled maintenance. not many who can buy a $55k car want to drop $15k on a service when the car was running right in the first place. haha. but, if you do not do it, kiss your resale good bye.
    i am on this site because of deciding to purchase a vaydor. for me it is the perfect choice due to it being it's own car and design, and built off of a very capable chassis. it is something that can be made mine with the sky being the limit on modifications. though it will be able to mash most exotics out there when i get done, it still does not stop my ultimate goal of working at having an actual real bugatti veyron in my garage one day.

    sorry for the long rant but if you couldn't tell, i am one of the guys who is very passionate about cars and love the history the originals bring to the table. anyone can always build something faster or better, but to match the history is impossible, which is where the resale comes into play again.
    Last edited by overzealous1; 04-11-2014, 02:22 AM.

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  • AdrianBurton
    replied
    Originally posted by doctor bombeii View Post
    Clearly you misunderstood what I was asking. I know the rant wasn't 100% concise and articulated, but I'm not wondering why people spend time building their own cars or what others thought about my car...It is why are these damned exotics so expensive and why do they depreciate so much?

    Obviously, I can figure that out on my own by concluding that the materials they use, big engines, exclusivity, blah blah blah are what drives the cost up....but then I am left with wondering why these depreciate so much. Obviously, the branding, R&D, exclusivity, status symbol, holds much of the weight...but I was wondering what some of you others were thinking.

    To me, the amount of money that cars cost these days is not directly related to its worth. Exotics are ridiculously priced and they are priced that way because people will buy them. Who in the world will spend $4M on an Aventador with a body kit (Veneno)? Why can't I produce my own Mclaren F1 for $150k-200k vs $4M-6M? If money was no object, would you still build your own cars or commission to have them built, or would you go and buy the real thing? In your opinion, where is the value? Safety? Status? Self Achievement? Speed? Road worthiness?


    To more clearly answer your question, it is the economy of scale. Lets say for example it takes every car manufacturer the same amount of money to desing and build a production ready car, say... 10,000,000
    Company A makes a sedan that will sell 5 million copies
    Company B makes a sports car that will sell 500 copies

    I reality it can get in to hundreds of millions of dollars when you factor in the tooling, assembly lines and training time required to launch a new vehicle.

    Company B has to sell their cars at a considerablely higher price for each copy to remain in business, that being said the only prople that can afford to buy these cars do so to show that they can / desire the exclusivity / really like the car, etc.

    As a result of that thinking when the next years model comes out they have to have it and on and on and on..... you know just like the cars that the rest of us can afford to buy

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  • paisa62
    replied
    Why are there more expesive cuts of beef from the same cow???? because there are people that will pay $ 100.00 for a steak, if not it would all be hamburger

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  • CARBUILDER
    replied
    ooops .. deleted comments .. having a grumpy day !!!
    Last edited by CARBUILDER; 04-08-2014, 10:19 AM.

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  • doctor bombeii
    replied
    Originally posted by murcie-me View Post
    Hmmm really? You need to go on the knitting forums and ask all the old bettys why they spend so much time knitting a sweater when they can just go to WalMart and buy one for $8.
    [QUOTE=murcie-me;201139You need to go on the knitting forums and ask all the old bettys why they spend so much time knitting a sweater when they can just go to WalMart and buy one for $8.
    This is a forum for builders and enthusiasts.[/QUOTE]

    Clearly you misunderstood what I was asking. I know the rant wasn't 100% concise and articulated, but I'm not wondering why people spend time building their own cars or what others thought about my car...It is why are these damned exotics so expensive and why do they depreciate so much?

    Obviously, I can figure that out on my own by concluding that the materials they use, big engines, exclusivity, blah blah blah are what drives the cost up....but then I am left with wondering why these depreciate so much. Obviously, the branding, R&D, exclusivity, status symbol, holds much of the weight...but I was wondering what some of you others were thinking.

    To me, the amount of money that cars cost these days is not directly related to its worth. Exotics are ridiculously priced and they are priced that way because people will buy them. Who in the world will spend $4M on an Aventador with a body kit (Veneno)? Why can't I produce my own Mclaren F1 for $150k-200k vs $4M-6M? If money was no object, would you still build your own cars or commission to have them built, or would you go and buy the real thing? In your opinion, where is the value? Safety? Status? Self Achievement? Speed? Road worthiness?

    Leave a comment:


  • dratts1
    replied
    Well yes, I'm not an artist by any stretch of the imagination, but yes.

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  • murcie-me
    replied
    Originally posted by doctor bombeii View Post
    These are all valid points.

    Safety, Status Symbol, Authenticity.

    The latter 2 are quite pretentious, however.
    Hmmm really? I know of 2 kit Lamborghinis that will stomp all over the real ones.
    You need to go on the knitting forums and ask all the old bettys why they spend so much time knitting a sweater when they can just go to WalMart and buy one for $8.
    This is a forum for builders and enthusiasts. We dont care what other people think of our cars, we build them for ourselves. We dont care if they will ever be worth as much as the real car, we aren't building to compete with them. This is a form of art for many of the builders here, its an form of expression and satisfaction of the accomplishment.

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  • doctor bombeii
    replied
    These are all valid points.

    Safety, Status Symbol, Authenticity.

    The latter 2 are quite pretentious, however.

    Leave a comment:


  • dratts1
    replied
    Values on any collectibles is always based on how genuine it is. Any replica whether a painting or a car has to be authentic. Even if the reproduction is superior to the original it will not have as much monetary value. We do it not because our projects will be as valuable as the original. Mine is cheaper to maintain and with the turbo ls4, lighter weight and lower speed gearing might very well outperform a real lambo up until it's computer controlled top speed of 165. It will never sell for as much as a genuine Lambo no matter how well it is built though.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdrianBurton
    replied
    The real reason as I see it is that the original purchasers of the exotics do it because they are status symbols, designed to show how well they are doing, typically a builder is doing it out of a real passion for the car/ build process

    Leave a comment:


  • murcie-me
    replied
    Yeah! What that guy said ^^^

    Leave a comment:


  • CARBUILDER
    replied
    So what makes a kit car inferior....
    Here in Canada if you are building and selling any kind of vehicle to the general public it is required to pass safety testing. You need to provide three (3) of your vehicles for crash test dummy testing (no-return) this is a huge expense and you need to pass the test. To my knowledge no kit car or modified vehicles have passed these tests.
    As a result the government views all kit cars as unsafe and not insurable for the road here. Of course we try to find ways around this by being the crash test dummies LOL.

    Leave a comment:


  • What makes a replica kit car inferior & why cars depreciate/appreciate?

    Hey guys,

    I just need to be talking to someone about my thoughts. I've been doing a lot of research (or internet browsing lol) over the past several years, and have concluded that most consumer products are overpriced. While I'm not about to delve into this deep subject of economics and capitalism, I was simply wondering what makes a kit car inferior to the real deal?

    Ready? Ok, here we go. I went to an Italian car show, here in beautiful Charlotte, NC yesterday and got a chance to see some real beauties. To get directly to the point, I saw 2 examples of the Almighty Ferrari Testarossas. Prob 1985 & 1988 examples. They seriously looked like a small under-funded company assembled them. I've seen these before, but ultimately, I concluded that there was not much real value in the cars aside from the brand name and its components - mainly the engine. Power comes much cheaper these days than it did in the 80's and 400hp is nice but it's not a big deal, you know? Ok, so a big engine, steel, fiberglass, and a brand...that's what I get for my money.

    So let's say I buy a custom chassis built to the likes of the specs of this car (probably lighter & much stronger actually) and I fit an EXACT 100% accurate replica fiberglass body on this car. I go to the local upholstery joint and fit some great leather inside and mock the interior to be an exact replica. Hell, I'll throw in a modern Ferrari V-12 as I'd never crossbreed bodies and engines.

    So the car is more rigid and powerful than the actual car, has an engine from the original manufacturer of the replica, and looks identical. Would this be inferior in your eyes? Please explain your answers.

    I have always frowned upon kit cars, but in my vast searches for information on the web, I have found that there are more than a few people who believe that Italians are not the best craftsmen. Even though the styling makes us go "Oooh Ah," the craftsmanship (ie welds, panel gaps, electronics, etc) may not always be up to par. I know it's not proper to generalize an entire nation, so please forgive me. However, I have always dreamed of owning a few Italian beauties, but as I get older, I think it would be more satisfying to build my own. I know many of you have the same feelings, which is why you have come to this site.

    I would never replicate a Testarossa, as they sell for relatively cheap now (IMO these things are overpriced to begin with), but there are several cars out there that I think can be replicated into a better, faster, dimensionally accurate versions at a much cheaper cost than what you'd pay at Barrett Jackson. So is the money in the brand, history, development, or materials? Why is that $565,000 Lamborghini Aventador Roadster going to be worth $150,000 after 10 years & 15,000 miles? Was it overpriced to begin with? Why did I see a $375,000 1996 Bentley Azure on ebay for $55,000 yesterday? Was it overpriced to begin with? Houses don't depreciate like that and when they do, we have an economic meltdown. Where is the money, and what will keep me from reproducing a now $5M Mclaren F1 (aside from copyright infringement, road worthiness), for $150,000 in my shop?

    So what makes a kit car inferior or superior than the model it pretends to be and why do YOU THINK these cars appreciate and depreciate?

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