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  • #46
    A pile of pics from Will's thread over on Pennock's. I am moving them here to keep in one place. These are Pilkington side glass windows. They have a slight compound curve but laminated glass not tempered. Also, Will was able to get a frame made by Jed before he retired. All in one place for reference.

    Cheers
    Don
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    • #47
      More window pictures
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      • #48
        More window pictures. Rear quarter windows have the most compound curves to them.
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        • #49
          And last the windows laid up with the frame. Again, all Pilkington glass
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          • #50
            Gents, I have received from Peter Swann at Pilkington a set of drawings for all the various windows, with part numbers, they make for CT replicas. I'm trying to work out a way to either scan them or copy them (they're all on one 41"x80" piece of paper) so I can supply them to builders on here to at least allow us to see if Pilkington glass can be made to fit our various kits. Clearly the window frames have to be built around the glass, and 'finessed' into the doors.

            Trying to think of an easy way to copy and disseminate to people, may have to resort to large photocopies that are stuck to cardboard and cut out for mock up...

            I will happily take enquiries to measure windows, but would rather a simple and easy method to send them out.... I also have basic measurements of the door glass, but can't 100% prove it's accuracy without glass to compare to.

            I know a few of us are working on this, I just want to try and help out.

            Don, do you think Will's glass was compound curved? Did we ever see it finally fitted? Have aliens abducted him? (Hope he's getting probed for all the parts he kept...)
            Can't tell from the pics if that glass/frames is curved front to rear or not..

            K9

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            • #51
              OK, so I went to the copy shop and tried to get the drawings scanned. They are on brown paper, with thin lines representing the outline of the glass pieces. The part numbers are written in thick marker, which scanned OK. I think the way forward is to take some time to go over the lines with a thick (2mm) marker and then have them scanned again. (I understand that may alter the dimensions +/- 1mm, but there is that much 'wiggle room' in the frames I think), That way I can either share digital files, or have them printed for others to use. I could even photograph them next to a ruler, but I think that would be less useful. Maybe I'll add measurements to the edges on the images.

              Incidentally, NYS 'home build' regs allow any approved AS-1, 2, 3, 10 or 11 'safety glass' for the windows immediately to the left and right of the driver, and rear most windows. Is laminated glass 'safety glass'? Watch this space. It appears the Pilkington glass is AS-1 marked.

              Thoughts?

              K9
              K9COP
              Senior Member
              Last edited by K9COP; 01-07-2015, 07:25 PM.

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              • #52
                I found it really hard to convert paper patterns to an actual usable measuring tool due to the bends in the glass . I found the Pilkington's glass kits are approx 1 1/2 " shorter than the OEM measurements . So I would say that as long as the roofline is kept the height as produced , the Pilkington glass will be a good fit . You can see from the pics of Williams car the glass fits well in his unmodified roof kit . It seems that curving laminated glass is easier and more likely to be the answer to replicating OEM sized glass and it is a safety glass that is in OEM Lincolns, BMW due to the noise reduction qualities over tempered .

                Dale

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                • #53
                  Put a light tint film on the window , for added shatter protection

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by dhart99 View Post
                    I found it really hard to convert paper patterns to an actual usable measuring tool due to the bends in the glass . I found the Pilkington's glass kits are approx 1 1/2 " shorter than the OEM measurements . So I would say that as long as the roofline is kept the height as produced , the Pilkington glass will be a good fit . You can see from the pics of Williams car the glass fits well in his unmodified roof kit . It seems that curving laminated glass is easier and more likely to be the answer to replicating OEM sized glass and it is a safety glass that is in OEM Lincolns, BMW due to the noise reduction qualities over tempered .

                    Dale
                    Dale, I hear what you're saying, I'm just trying to do something definitive for the good of the community. Now, paper patterns? Yes, probably quite tricky, but accurate patterns stuck to a more rigid media, such as construction paper, thin metal plate, whatever, may be easier to judge by. I've been looking at the various measurements posted, by Sienna, my Pilkington measurements, and a set of OEM measurements I have from what I consider a reliable source. I'll try and put into a table below the various measurements, and try to explain them:

                    Starting with the top door window. From the lower forward point, where it joins the window below up to the top of the frame, I'll call edge 1. Edge 2 is the horizontal top edge. Edge 3 is the rear vertical edge, and edge 4 is the horizontal edge along the bottom. Pilkington measurements are approximate with a tape measure, but I will supply photos of measurements to those who want them.

                    Edge 1

                    OEM ......Pilkington ......Sienna

                    8.9835" ..9.0" .............Not supplied.

                    Edge 2

                    OEM ......Pilkington ......Sienna

                    23.5" .....23" ..............23"

                    Edge 3

                    OEM ......Pilkington ......Sienna

                    7.625" ....7.25" ...........7.75"

                    Edge 4

                    OEM ......Pilkington ......Sienna

                    28.25" ...27.75" ..........28.0"

                    Now, as can be seen, there is variation there between all three, and there are other patterns on the Pilkington sheet I have for various other windows. I'm going to stop trying to describe it in words to avoid confusion, and try and find a way to graphically represent all of them together, but the Pilkington patterns, so far, are not 1 1/2" shorter than OEM.

                    I'm just trying to provide a cheap, reliable tool for guys to either choose, or reject, the available glass from Pilkington vs. Sienna. Maybe if we get enough buyers together, we can get favourable terms.

                    I'm also trying to negotiate an audience with a genuine car locally, I could measure the windows then, to a degree, but if I'm successful will start another thread for picture/measurement/info requests from members.

                    Just trying to help,

                    K9

                    Sorry about the crappy formatting..
                    K9COP
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by K9COP; 01-08-2015, 02:50 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Please don't get me wrong K9, you have been a great source for information on this topic and any help/contacts are appreciated by me and as we look forward i may be using the Pilkington kit myself . I only noticed that the measurements from Pilkington on their front quarter glass is 16 7/8 " on the vertical divider bar where as the OEM/Seinna is 18 1/4", thats where I think the shorter height will come from . I would love to find a company that would run some copies of these off and like you I thought about using the OEM sizes that we now have and form them from sheet metal as bending molds . Thanks again K9 !

                      Dale

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                      • #56
                        Paul,
                        Title 51 of the Federal Transportation Code defines it as anything that does not shatter when broken. This includes Lexan and vinyl convertible windows. I am surprised to hear that State Law may override or conflict with Federal Law.

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                        • #57
                          " I am surprised to hear that State Law may override or conflict with Federal Law. "

                          Ha, I think Colorado knows something about this Charley

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                          • #58
                            Very valid point, I totally retract that statement.

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                            • #59
                              Hey guys;


                              Good discussion. I also got the oem measurements through Dale and made up a PowerPoint with three slides for comparison that I just saved as jpegs so we can all see the measurements in comparison visually. The Sienna and oem are very close except for oem has mounting tabs that come down from the bottom of the bottom window and sienna is flat. I talked to Fred at Sienna yesterday and he says that Sienna was always very close but he was not sure about the compound curve of the side glass. It looks like Pilkington has a slight compound curve to them I believe but the height is a fair amount off as Dale said.

                              The options we are still working with are:

                              1. Use Pilkington and stay with the smaller size
                                1. But they are curved
                                2. The measurements side to side on the Pilkington glass are also slightly different but should be covered in the window frames and rubber seals

                              2. Wait for the oem side glass project that is being worked on now
                                1. This project is still not a 100% go ahead but oem side windows are gong to be 3D scanned and molds made from those and sets built from there
                                2. The wait time for the sets is about 6-9 months though
                                3. This might be too long for some to wait

                              3. Sienna glass package as it stands now
                                1. Sienna still has access to the glass company that makes the side glass for them but the curve is not compound
                                2. very close to oem size though
                                3. The last run that Sienna did two years ago left many sets over that Fred had trouble getting rid of.
                                4. He did sell them off but his minimum run is 35 pieces each so 35 sets
                                5. Not a trivial number of sets to try to move if they are not exact oem where he can get into real Countach owner market as well.
                                6. The number we would have for him would probably be a total of maybe 10 sets so he would be sitting on 25 sets .....
                                7. His preference is to get the oem glass done so there is a larger market available

                              4. Buy Sienna front quarter windows and make the upper and lower side windows out of Lexan/Plexi
                                1. Sienna has a few quarter glass windows left over but no upper and lower
                                2. Buy the quarter window and make the upper and lower windows from the measurements here and angles from our own cars
                                3. That would allow those needing glass now to continue the build and then replace the upper and lower with one of the runs when they come about later


                              We have options but none of them are perfect.......

                              Cheers
                              Don

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                              308 Ferrari replica
                              Prova Countach 5000S

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                              • #60
                                Nice work Don , thanks for all the hard work on this topic , seems there are options out there for everyone just a matter of time .

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