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  • 4.9 supercharged???

    Wondering if anyone has put a Paxton on their 4.9 caddy before? Seems like I have seen a thread on Pennocks for a turbo but not for a supercharger. Meet a guy from England who was trying to sell me on the idea of putting dual electric superchargers in my project when the time comes but everything i've read tells me they are mostly worthless.

    mike
    Building a F40 replica, 4.9 caddy, 5 speed.

  • #2
    Re: 4.9 supercharged???

    Mike:

    I am interested in installing a turbo on my 3800 NA 5-speed. I thought about the electric superchargers but I found they really added no value. On the other hand, the turbo looks promising to me. I think a unit from a Volvo 740 will become my choice. Most of them are very cheep (under a hundred buck used at most u-pull-it yards). I spoke with a guy at the St. Pete Grand Prix last Sunday who was very informative. He starts with the same unit and modifies the system from that base point.

    He also had some comments about intercoolers and larger tubing during the implementation of a turbo system.

    Let me know if you go that route. I would like to collaborate on the topic with you.

    Dave
    If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 4.9 supercharged???

      I've got two Garett T4s I was wanting to put on my car with a 350 Chevy. But that's on a back burner, for now.Besides I think 425 HP is plenty of power to rip out a trany.I just wanted it to look BAD A$$.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 4.9 supercharged???

        Dave,

        The turbo idea does sound interesting. Very interesting....a F40 is SUPPOSE to have twin turbos right. 8) Let me start researching the topic tonight. This could be the start of something really wicked.

        mike
        Building a F40 replica, 4.9 caddy, 5 speed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 4.9 supercharged???

          Dave:

          Would you be looking at having the turbo rebuilt, or just put it on as-is? How many psi are you looking at? I know 5psi or so on the stock engine is possible without pretty much any other modifications on a 3800, and after that you have to get into the fuel management units/larger injectors.

          How much are you expecting the project to cost? I think your biggest pain is going to be the exhaust piping.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 4.9 supercharged???

            I have outlined a turbo project that will use a good used turbo from the Volvo 740. The piping is a big concern but I am working through the issues. The person at the Gran Prix installed a fuel regulator that is operated by intake vacuum (the sensor is located between the throttle body and the cylinder head) this fuel pressure regulator will manually adjust the fuel as the boost increases.

            he recommended using an Intercooler with piping going into the unit being 3" in diameter and the exit being 3.5" to 4" in diameter since the throttle body is 4 inches where the intake tubing will connect.

            Here is a mock up of how I plan to fit it all in the back of the car. I located most of the aluminum tubing and silicone fittings on eBay including the intercooler unit.

            I will use cool air from the Ferrari door scoop to feed air into the unit. I noticed a lot of people sticking an air cleaner onto the turbo but believe that is adding about 40 degrees to the intake temperature before it hits the intercooler.

            The exhaust is not a problem I have most of it in place before installing the turbo since planning this from the beginning of the build.

            Do you happen to know the best area to drill into the 3800 block to get an oil source for the turbo? My plan is to run the oil exiting from the turbo into a cooling unit and then into the oil pan.

            Dave
            Attached Files
            If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 4.9 supercharged???

              The ideal way would be to start with a sc3800. I've been told that they have a stronger bottom end. There are a lot of them out there and some of them are pretty reasonable.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                Originally posted by dratts1
                The ideal way would be to start with a sc3800. I've been told that they have a stronger bottom end. There are a lot of them out there and some of them are pretty reasonable.
                I purchased this engine new from Buick in 1999. It was a QC tear down car with 96 miles on it. It has been in the car for a long time, so that is what I will use. With 7-9 lb boost I think it will be just fine. The only differences in the lower end of the 3800 SC vs the 3800 NA are connecting shorter connecting rods and lower compression pistons. The new pistons are $670 and the rods are $480 plus a rebuild kit. I think if I were going to go to 15-20 lbs boost I would agree with you, but it is going to be used for light street use, no drifting or other racing.

                Normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level(Florida is at sea level), so if you run 14.7 psi of boost, theoretically your horsepower will be doubled. Due to some inefficiencies of a turbocharger though, you will be making about 80 percent more horsepower. I think an additional 40% will be just great. That will bring FunnyWheels up to 300HP.
                If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                  Dave,

                  As far as the oil flow to the turbo. I was wondering if it might be possible use a remote oil filter kit and have it the return flow through the turbo before returning to the block. What problems would there be doing it this way?

                  mike
                  Building a F40 replica, 4.9 caddy, 5 speed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                    Didn't a guy in England or Germany do a Eaton M-90 or M110 on a 4.9 ??

                    I seem to remember seeing something like that before. I'm sure I have it saved somewhere.

                    I'm not too sure if the M-90 would do "a huge amount" on a 4.9 but if I remember right, a M-90 form a T-bird SC has an outlet that requires a bit less fabrication since it "outlets" like a tube to the Throttle Body if I'm thinking correctly. I think it would provide a decent bit of boost on the 4.9. Mabye on the lower side so I'm guessing over boosting with a M-90 on a 4.9 wouldn't be an issue.

                    I think the specs of a M-110 would be better suited to a V8 but I think the size would be an issue in a fiero based replica. If I'm not mistaken this guy overseas mounted the M-90 on the side of the 4.9 near the exhaust manifold.

                    I've had quite a few Buick GN's and T-types but other than them, I'm not too familiar with any other turbos other than my last Stealth R/T Twin Turbo which I just left alone.
                    Previous Builds: AF - 308 Replica w/ V8 & GM F-body Testarossa Replica
                    Current Toys: 308 V8 Project #2, 91 V-12 Jaguar XJ-S Coupe. 1983 Hurst\Olds, 1979 Trans/AM - 468CID Bracket Car.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                      The 4.9L would require extensive head work, they don't breath well. The valves can't be worked to much because there are clearance problems. The 4.9 is a great engine stock and maybe with some (Nitrous) gas. If you want real performance go with a Northstar or a 3800SCII. Take care. Bill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                        Originally posted by mikebrnch
                        Dave,

                        As far as the oil flow to the turbo. I was wondering if it might be possible use a remote oil filter kit and have it the return flow through the turbo before returning to the block. What problems would there be doing it this way?

                        mike
                        Mike:

                        I have been thinking of running the oil for the turbo through an oil cooler and filter into a reservoir using the existing power steering pump on the 3800. My concern is the amount of heat the turbo will generate that could melt the power steering pump housing since it is made of plastic. I think more than likely it will be engine to turbo through the oil cooler then back into the engine oil pan. I already have a larger remote oil filter on the engine and two big oil coolers (one in each door scoop) that will help keep the temperature reasonable. So that is 3 oil coolers in total, one for the turbo and two additional for all of the oil in the engine. I really don't see any problems with the outlined process. I think your method will work as well by adding the additional oil filter between the turbo and engine.

                        Dave
                        If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                          You want to run the oil feed from the oil pressure sensor, find the right pitch and T it, it will be more than enough oil and always use SS lines. I order from Summit on a few of my turbocharged cars, however depending on the turbo you might need some custom fittings to mate a volvo turbo... I would suggest a GT28RS (oil and water cooled) and more than enough spool for the 3.8 liter. I personally have an oil cooled only T78 on my supra and its fine, but the lines for it were 300 dollars to replace but thats Greddy for you.

                          Jeff

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                          • #14
                            Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                            Jeff:

                            Thanks for the information. I located the oil pressure senson on my 3800. It is next to the oil filter mounting assembly. (note blue circle on photo)

                            Your suggeastion is to "T" off of this part then to the turbo then through the oil cooler back to the engine oil pan.

                            On a water cooled turbo, do I just come off of the heater hose to the turbo then back to the heater or is there some other method?

                            Dave
                            Attached Files
                            If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 4.9 supercharged???

                              I'll try and look up PBJs thread. He overheated his N* because of his watercooled turbo. I think I remember something about another pump he installed as a solution. I don't remember if it was a water pump or oil pump.

                              Comment

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